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May 13 08 12:45 AM

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I am using a MacBook (GMA 950) purchased last september. In the Know Issues List it reads that the painting tools may not work correctly with a GMA 950.
Are there any chances this issue may be fixed in future versions?
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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#1 [url]

May 13 08 6:34 AM

Re: GMA 950

There are little chance and I explain why:

Livequartz uses CoreImage for brush, eraser and duplication tool and CoreImage was sold from Apple to the developers with this idea "It works exactly the same on all Macintosh, even if the graphic card could not handle it, the CPU will do and the result will be the same". It was right at the beginning of the life of CoreImage (10.4.0) but in successive updates to the system, some very annoying bugs like the the GMA 950's one have been brought by apple. On Leopard they have generated lot's of bugs in CoreImage because it seems that teams are now more focused on iPhone than libraries like CoreImage that are not inside iPhone OS.
So, as LQ is a freeware, this is not my main activity, I don't have lot's of time to work to fix Apple bugs and there are cool features improvements to do. So I decided to sacrify GMA950 for the moment. GMA3000 is ok, CPU with no CoreImage accelerated cards on old PowerPC G4 are ok (first MacMinis) so I don't understand why Apple is not capable to produce a stable library for GMA950.

I would be very happy to fix this bug. I have already tried but I could not find a solution that will avoid to rewrite from scratch all the painting tools and I really don't want to do that for just one graphic card.

I hope that Apple will fix the issue.

Waluigi wrote:
I am using a MacBook (GMA 950) purchased last september. In the Know Issues List it reads that the painting tools may not work correctly with a GMA 950.
Are there any chances this issue may be fixed in future versions?

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#2 [url]

May 13 08 12:29 PM

I wonder if the Apple developers are aware of this issue and if it would help to report it...As far as I've heard, Apple tends to neglect older hardware, but in the case of the GMA 950 it was still standard in MacBooks and MacMinis when Leopard came out last year. Maybe there is at least little hope that they do something about it...
I had some odd color bugs (that coldn't be undone with 'undo') with some color filters, too. I guess this is because of the GMA 950/Leopard as well?
And, as seen in demo video 3, the selection tool usually "freezes" at some point while dragging a selection frame around something (zebra eye in the video), requiring you to wait some seconds (less in the video) until you see your current frame as it is (I hope you understand what you mean, it is the lack of "fluidity" in the frame dragging). Is this something that can be fixed?
Anyway, LiveQuartz easily remains my image editing tool of choice:
a very good self-explanatory interface, polish, stability and few bugs, speed, low file size, all the functions I need, Leopard integration, fast support in the forum,
It easily beats clunky, buggy and unpolished X11 Gimp in EVERY single one of these categories, despite of the apparently much larger user (and developer!) base Gimp has. In the very short time I tried Gimp with my low skills and demands I already found so many bugs (program crashs and very obvious localization flaws included) using only the simplest operations. Then I tried the apparently discontinued "Seashore" and FINALLY for some some small post in a Mac forum, I discovered LiveQuartz.
It should really be used and known by more people...

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#3 [url]

May 14 08 6:59 AM

Thank you

Could you send me a screenshot of the window of LQ when you have the color filter bug please?
I will try to fix the freezing of the selection tool as soon as possible.

Romain.


Waluigi wrote:
I wonder if the Apple developers are aware of this issue and if it would help to report it...As far as I've heard, Apple tends to neglect older hardware, but in the case of the GMA 950 it was still standard in MacBooks and MacMinis when Leopard came out last year. Maybe there is at least little hope that they do something about it...
I had some odd color bugs (that coldn't be undone with 'undo') with some color filters, too. I guess this is because of the GMA 950/Leopard as well?
And, as seen in demo video 3, the selection tool usually "freezes" at some point while dragging a selection frame around something (zebra eye in the video), requiring you to wait some seconds (less in the video) until you see your current frame as it is (I hope you understand what you mean, it is the lack of "fluidity" in the frame dragging). Is this something that can be fixed?
Anyway, LiveQuartz easily remains my image editing tool of choice:
a very good self-explanatory interface, polish, stability and few bugs, speed, low file size, all the functions I need, Leopard integration, fast support in the forum,
It easily beats clunky, buggy and unpolished X11 Gimp in EVERY single one of these categories, despite of the apparently much larger user (and developer!) base Gimp has. In the very short time I tried Gimp with my low skills and demands I already found so many bugs (program crashs and very obvious localization flaws included) using only the simplest operations. Then I tried the apparently discontinued "Seashore" and FINALLY for some some small post in a Mac forum, I discovered LiveQuartz.
It should really be used and known by more people...

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#4 [url]

May 14 08 9:28 AM

It seems I was wrong about the filter bug, as I'm not able to reproduce it. If you remove a new filter with "Undo", it just takes some more seconds until the image refreshes on my Mac, so probably that's why I thought that Undo didn't work. And the colors of some filter seemed odd to me, but probably they were as they should be and it was no bug.

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#5 [url]

May 29 08 7:08 AM

Hi walugi,

Does the 10.5.3 build of Leopard fixes the GMA problem? I ask this because I have no GMA 950 mac to test it.

Thanks.
Romain.

Waluigi wrote:
It seems I was wrong about the filter bug, as I'm not able to reproduce it. If you remove a new filter with "Undo", it just takes some more seconds until the image refreshes on my Mac, so probably that's why I thought that Undo didn't work. And the colors of some filter seemed odd to me, but probably they were as they should be and it was no bug.

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#6 [url]

May 30 08 8:02 AM

Hi, I was just experimenting a bit. I got the Undo thing again:
I added the filter "Colour Map"(?) and then selected "undo". The filter disappeared from the list, but the image did not refresh (i.e. remained in "Coulour Map" for at least ten seconds) until I added another filter. I don't know whether or not this is a GMA-specific issue. At the moment I don't remember what exactly the problems with the painting tools on GMA Macs were (I think I once encountered them myself), but I'll have a look later.
If you want me to test something specific, don't hesitate to tell me.

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#7 [url]

May 30 08 7:14 PM

Ok this undo refresh bug is well known in LiveQuartz but the major bug on GMA 950 is brush, eraser and duplication tools not working : Only one point appears.
Is this resolved?

Waluigi wrote:
Hi, I was just experimenting a bit. I got the Undo thing again:
I added the filter "Colour Map"(?) and then selected "undo". The filter disappeared from the list, but the image did not refresh (i.e. remained in "Coulour Map" for at least ten seconds) until I added another filter. I don't know whether or not this is a GMA-specific issue. At the moment I don't remember what exactly the problems with the painting tools on GMA Macs were (I think I once encountered them myself), but I'll have a look later.
If you want me to test something specific, don't hesitate to tell me.

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#8 [url]

May 30 08 11:21 PM

Now that I tried it out I remember the situation I had before 1.5.3, and I'm afraid it isn't any different now:
All painting tools work perfectly fine with small/medium images, but as soon as I try to draw a line with one of the tools on a 10 megapixel photo, the line is visible for one second and then disappears.

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#9 [url]

May 30 08 11:30 PM

By the way I'm using a MacBook 2GHz Intel Core Duo with 2 GB of RAM, so the problem with the larger photos shouldn't be a memory/processing power issue.

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#10 [url]

May 31 08 5:15 AM

Yes, you're right, this is not due to your hardware, this is the CoreImage software GMA 950 bug. Apple did not fixed it


Waluigi wrote:
By the way I'm using a MacBook 2GHz Intel Core Duo with 2 GB of RAM, so the problem with the larger photos shouldn't be a memory/processing power issue.

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#11 [url]

May 31 08 6:15 AM

It's a shame...maybe one could report this to Apple again, because the GMA 950 really isn't "antique" hardware yet.
Even if Apple's reputation concerning backwards compatibility is not the best...

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#12 [url]

Jun 9 08 12:29 PM

Salut!

First:
Great work with 1.8.1, especially the lasso.
I found it because I regularly check the website. There is no announcement in the forum yet, right? In my case LiveQuartz didn't notify me about the new version this time like it did before, don't know why.

But all of this is unimportant to THAT:

Believe it or not, playing around with the new lasso I discovered a trick for making the painting tools work on my GMA MacBook!
As before, I used my 10 megapixel photos which normally let anything drawn with the painitng tools disappear after a second or two. However, what you can do is USE THE SELECTION TOOL to create a selection frame. If it is not too big (with 1259x1419 it still works, but 2000x2000 is too big already), you can use all the tools WITHIN THE BORDERS OF THE FRAME. Then, you can just make a new frame whereever you want to draw something. Sure, more complicated than normal, but hey, it works.
A shame that actually few people will read and try this, I could probably write you in French and nobody would care... ;)

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#13 [url]

Jun 9 08 2:12 PM

Hi Waluigi !
This is great news for GMA 950 users I will post a new subject with your workaround and talk about it in the LQ read Me for the next release.
Thank you a lot for this one !

Waluigi wrote:
Salut!

First:
Great work with 1.8.1, especially the lasso.
I found it because I regularly check the website. There is no announcement in the forum yet, right? In my case LiveQuartz didn't notify me about the new version this time like it did before, don't know why.

But all of this is unimportant to THAT:

Believe it or not, playing around with the new lasso I discovered a trick for making the painting tools work on my GMA MacBook!
As before, I used my 10 megapixel photos which normally let anything drawn with the painitng tools disappear after a second or two. However, what you can do is USE THE SELECTION TOOL to create a selection frame. If it is not too big (with 1259x1419 it still works, but 2000x2000 is too big already), you can use all the tools WITHIN THE BORDERS OF THE FRAME. Then, you can just make a new frame whereever you want to draw something. Sure, more complicated than normal, but hey, it works.
A shame that actually few people will read and try this, I could probably write you in French and nobody would care... ;)

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#14 [url]

Jun 9 08 4:41 PM

Believe it or not, I just found another trick to do it:
Just zoom in enough and it will work fine as well!

It seems as if the problem had something to do with the number of pixels displayed within the painting area...

Anyway, with one of the two tricks at least on my Mac everything works fine with the painting tools now.

In the next version maybe the filter-undo-refresh thing could be fixed, but even without that, LiveQuartz 1.8.1 is a pretty polished program already.

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#16 [url]

Jul 15 09 5:17 AM

The release notes of SL do not talk about a bug fix with CoreImage and GMA.
But as I am rewriting the display engine in LiveQuartz 1.9 for 10.6, the bug might disappear.

Waluigi wrote:
I'm planning to upgrade to Snow Leopard when it releaeses. Are there any indications that Apple has worked on the CoreImage bugs as well in 10.6?

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#17 [url]

Sep 2 09 9:56 PM

Exellent timing, I just bought Snow Leopard and the new LQ release is available. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the painting is already working already better than before on my GMA system with 1.8.3.

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rhapso

Posts: 251 Site Admin

#18 [url]

Sep 3 09 4:26 AM

Great news
To fix bugs on snow leopard, I had to change some code that is involved in the tools.
In 1.9, I am rewriting the brush, the eraser and the duplication tool.
I am also rewriting the layers / filters display engine.
Stay tuned.

Waluigi wrote:
Exellent timing, I just bought Snow Leopard and the new LQ release is available. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the painting is already working already better than before on my GMA system with 1.8.3.

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